General observations.



    1. DC needs NOT to be rebuildable after SD. It's the single most absurd thing needlessly prolonging the game. It can be rebuild instantly, and that gives human defenders enough time to kill any alien rusher, even with luci killing the DC - precisely b/c it can be rebuilt instantly. This can be changed relatively simply.

    2. Barricades are 100% useless. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY but Adolf uses cades, EVER. Even Adolf uses them to troll build. Either make cades rebuildable in SD, or reduce the cost to 2-3-4bps. This also can be changed relatively simply.

    3. SD at 25 is simply stupid with current bps system. Yesterday BOTH teams had S3 under 5mins. This means 20 mins of pointless rushing b/c you can instarebuild from one egg into 7 eggs b/c bps return immediately. Same goes for rets. I've managed to kill 4 rets at RC only to find out that 3ckits can outbuild a goon sniping. I fucking saw them build the rets back WHILE i was sniping them. It's absurd. Make SD a timed event, like SD=both teams S3 + 5mins. Delay the return of bps.

    4. Consider a bounty system. Yesterday Rohan was at A, he managed to goon (AS1/HS2) 40+kills with second alien having 10-ish and humans having single digits. I've managed to kill him, eventually, by a combination of shotgun and nodespam , but come the fuck on, I got lousy 350cr for killing Rohan's goon with a naked shotgun.

    The idea is simple: Rohan's kills (or k/d ratio) is a basis for multiplying the reward for his class/equipement. With 40 kills, he's worth 140% (whatever the value) of normal reward. Mind you this should be done as 1+ multiplier, rewarding the killing of good players, not punishing good players for being good (below 1 multiplier, like the former anti-stax system that punished entire team).

    1. Nodespam/eggspam is a strategy. Another thing that keeps teams alive, even vs massive stax. Yesterday 2 dudes from $ with PF Rose and one other killwhore lucirushed our base killing everyone in hall or outside. This went on for 10 mins. The outcome of their rushes was something like -acidtube -trapper -egg (10 mins of rushing almost non stop) b/c they died after one lucishot inside A base. They died to dretchspam. I am one of the most prolific feeders out there, but this node/eggspam does work VERY well. Just spawn, start going hall and shoot everything. With 8+people in the team and 4 spawns you are bound to team up by pure chance, and that gives you the opportunity to kill the goonwhores. Then it's HS2 and (more or less) even playing field.

    In A, goon>all (even suits), but the real mvp is dretch with poison. With 5-6 eggs, the respawn time is instant. Get dretch (helps if you're decent, but not required), get poison, rush to H base. Chances are you're gonna catch some H leaving their base, and most of the time they will not go back to heal. Repeat x999. I ROUTINELY go from 0 evos to 9 in very short time (and mind you, I'm half of the skill I was during NE), b/c I spam dretch with poison, target lucis (the only thing that can kill our base after AS3), deal as much damage and get killed, but the poison stays, so they can waste medikit on ONE dretch, or not use medikit early on and risk getting oneshotted by goons.

    1. Fix the radar (but not like on NE by extending the range, that was bad). Go on top of the bunker as dretch, go near the H side, but not on top of the ledge. Radar doesn't show blue dot. Go on the ledge but barely, radar shows blue dot. Get helmet, go to hall middle hall, radar doesn't show red dot until you cross specific right angle in the hall, and I'm pretty sure it's the corner on the A side of the tunnel. It's even worse on more complicated maps.

    2. Close 1.1 servers, start 1.2-New Edge. 1.1 is caveman garbage compared to NE. Not even joking.


  • Council

    I think SD at 25 is fine cos it lets both teams have a good fight before the camp fest. I do agree with your bounty system, I also agree that spawn spam is a strat, but is very annoying. The DC is not supposed to be rebuild-able in SD, I believe the cvar "g_suddenDeathMode" was changed on the server to allow this. Plz correct me if I'm wrong council team. I believe that the radar thing was not meant to be in the game, but it does allow for more tactical gameplay by those who are experienced enough to utilize AND counter that kind of gameplay, sice it can be executed and countered just as well. To end, 1.1 is the superior version, why do you think 1.2 died so fast and people went back to 1.1? Also, NE was ported to 1.1 many years ago, maybe cos that's where all the players were and have almost always been?


  • Council

    1. DC isn't the core of the problem; the current BP/SD systems are problematic and heavily encourage games to last an eternity (not to mention the camping). We should work on fixing the whole of it, not just DC.

    2. We already improved the barricade; we will probably be working on changing it a bit more eventually. Things like changing the HP apparently require client code modifications.

    3. Refer to #1; SD will be problematic for particular reasons at any given time it's set to - 25 is a pretty good compromise.

    4. I've already suggested a bounty system instead of the current implementation of anti-stack (which is disabled at the moment); we'll try to reconsider and discuss it again.

    5. Refer to #1; this would be fixed with a better BP/SD system.

    6. This is a very non-trivial and deep "non-issue": This is related to rendering. When things get out of your vision, they disappear. The vis sheets are generated during a map's compilation.

    7. Most players don't care about 1.2 and will go as far as to not even download a 1.2 client from how much they hate it. Cf. the amount of players on 1.1 and 1.2 at any given time in tremulous' life.


  • Council

    Eggspam and eternal DCs can be fixed with slow BP recovery and rewards for rushing. We should discuss this in detail in a separate thread.

    Rebalancing useless buildings also deserves a separate thread. There's a long list of proposed changes, I'll post it later.

    Changing how SD is timed's been on my todo list for a good while. More details later.

    I'm not convinced by the idea of a bounty system. I'm against artificially narrowing the skill gap between individual players. It will motivate neither the noobs nor the pros. (Anti-stacking is meant to serve a completely different purpose as it works on a team-by-team basis.)

    Fixing the radar is probably a no-go. It's "broken" for a very good reason and needs high-level sorcery to fix.



  • I'm not convinced by the idea of a bounty system. I'm against artificially narrowing the skill gap between individual players. It will motivate neither the noobs nor the pros. (Anti-stacking is meant to serve a completely different purpose as it works on a team-by-team basis.)

    I'd rather have no balancing system at all than have the former anti-stacking one. Nobody wanted it, it was frowned upon by good players and gave no help for the weaker team at all.

    You should reward me for killing Ironclaw, not punish Ironclaw for killing me. If you give me more credits for killing Ironclaw, I'm more likely to leave my base and rush, b/c I can afford to waste credits, which in turn will feed Iron, even if it will feed him at the base 100% level. His and mine skill remain the same, it's just that I will leave the base more often or snipe rets more often if I can afford it.


  • Council

    The reason why I chose to decrease the better's team income rather than increase the worse's is to make sure that the adjustments are always meaningful. If a game is heavily stacked, no amount of extra funds will help the losing team. Although I do agree that if teams aren't too unbalanced, it should work the other way (the way you described it).

    I have no idea why you'd want to balance on a player-by-player basis though. There always will be better and worse players, but you can get teams to be more or less balanced.



  • @enneract said in General observations.:

    If a game is heavily stacked, no amount of extra funds will help the losing team

    You're right, it won't, but it will get them to have better gear and leave base more often.


  • Council

    @grmg or the stacked team gets so nerfed they end up switching over and balance is restored.



  • That almost never happens.


  • Council

    @grmg it happened with the anti-stack turned on. Obviously it can't happen if we haven't enabled the feature.


  • Council

    @Theriaca said in General observations.:

    1. DC isn't the core of the problem; the current BP/SD systems are problematic and heavily encourage games to last an eternity (not to mention the camping). We should work on fixing the whole of it, not just DC.

    I would argue that the DC is a considerable part of the problem, I've played and observed plenty of games where humans permacamp and have a dedicated DC rebuilder who has never left the human base and has exactly 0 kills (but has 2k credits from constant DC rebuilding so has enough to also camp csuit when you go near their beloved DC).



  • It would be the same argument like rants in a-base. You may Fokus too much on the DC. It's just about teamwork. Snipe the DC and then immediately overrun the humans with ten twelve rants. End of story...


  • Council

    @kai ok so what if you get rid of the DC and now people build an armoury instead



  • @Theriaca allow only one?


  • Council

    @Mmmm what about forward bases and moves then?


  • Council

    I was under the assumption that you can only rebuild one armoury/medi/dc after SD even if you had two or more originally.



  • @Theriaca i mean the rebuild after SD


  • Council

    Well, if you get rid of the SD DC you'll have ledge campers in chainsuit to replace it anyway, lmao



  • @Theriaca yeah exactly. The DC thing is overrated imo



  • Wow. One reply allowed / 120 sec 😕


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